Wikipedia:Proposed colaboration between the community of lmo.wiki, Wikimedia Italia and Wikimedia CH

First of all. I'm not in the board of Wikimedia Italia, and I'm not a member of Wikimedia CH, so what I'm saying should not be interpreted as an official position of the two chapters.

I will make some references to what has been said on .

Speaking of collaboration. Wikimedia Italia and Wikimedia CH are two legal entities, officially recognized respectively by the Italian Republic and by the Swiss Confederation. And both are recognized as local chapters by the Wikimedia Foundation. The community of lmo.wikipedia is not a legal entity, as such, thing like "there should be a written agreement. It should be signed in Switzerland (neutrality) and contractors should agree that conflicting views about the named agreement would have to be solved by a Swiss court of law." are simply impossible, because the community of lmo.wikipedia can't sign anything. There are two possible solutions:

The community of lmo.wikipedia costitutes an association, verein, whaterver, legally recognized and able to sign agreements. But in this case take a look at this.
Each user of lmo.wikipedia can become a member of one of the local chapters of WMF. As a member he is entitled to take part at the life of the association and make his/her proposals. I have no idea if a non-Swiss citizen can join Wikimedia CH, but a non-Italian citizen can join Wikimedia Italia.

Both solutions are ok for me, if some of you has other possible solutions, please describe them.

Someone said, referring to Wikimedia Italia, "But you should have official documents in any laguage spoken in the Italian state.". Now, I don't understand what's the meaning of the word "official" in this context.

If it means official for the Italian Republic, the answer is: for the state, the only official documents (bylaws, etc.) are those written in italian. And it's something we have no power to change, so please ask the italian government.
If it means official for Wikimedia Italia, the only problem I see is that we need someone able to translate them in any language he/she likes. (The same applies for the website of Wikimedia Italia). So please join, and help us translating. Or just translate for us. That's collaboration.

So, now, how do you think this collaboration should work?

Do you have any questions?

--Snowdog 18:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear Sir, I am pleased to read this. It really looks like to have been written in a more constructive spirit than other statements of yours. Please note that, in what follows, I am writing only personal judgement of my own.

There is still some unfriendly accent, like this one: *If it means official for the Italian Republic, the answer is: for the state, the only official documents (bylaws, etc.) are those written in italian. And it's something we have no power to change, so please ask the italian government. Probably, you will have realised that some differences between our cultures do exist. So, you could be thinking something like: This is reality, why the hell do this guy feel this as unfriendly? It doesn't really matter: while talking with people belonging to other cultures, I recommend you should take into account a priori this kind of chance. These statements are interesting: The community of lmo.wikipedia costitutes an association, verein, whaterver, legally recognized and able to sign agreements. Each user of lmo.wikipedia can become a member of one of the local chapters of WMF. As a member he is entitled to take part at the life of the association and make his/her proposals. I have no idea if a non-Swiss citizen can join Wikimedia CH, but a non-Italian citizen can join Wikimedia Italia. Both solutions are ok for me, if some of you has other possible solutions, please describe them.

This is interesting as well: *If it means official for Wikimedia Italia, the only problem I see is that we need someone able to translate them in any language he/she likes. (The same applies for the website of Wikimedia Italia). So please join, and help us translating. Or just translate for us. That's collaboration. (But, please, be so kind to remark that you could like to be teaching what collaboration is: this still a little, maybe harmless, obstacle). I hope you will understand I will join none of the two chapters, due to my personal political belief. Of course I am ready to translate. What the Italian chapter, in my view, is expected to do is admitting that, in principle, it will be structured in all the 20 or more languages spoken in Italy. The Swiss chapter is expected to do the same, and to put Francoprovençal and Lombard at their right places in the portal www.wikipedia.ch. As soon as we have a minimal standard, we'll use that for relationship with foreign friends, whereas, amongst us, each one will go on using her/his dialect (or will contribute to develop that standard). I am sure you understand I cannot support you this time, Sir. Best regards--10caart 10:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I suggest this page to be structered in more than one subsection. I will propose something as soon as possible.--10caart 10:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about this, but the website www.wikipedia.ch is not owned by Wikimedia CH (I'm saying this because I remember it existed before the estabilishment of Wikimedia CH). By the way Wikimedia CH has a website at http://www.wikimedia.ch/. Anyway did any of you formally contacted Wikimedia CH to reqest the changes to the swiss portal (if they actually own it of course)? --Snowdog 11:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Not yet, at least as far as I know. Indeed it would be a striking coincidence if it:user:Ilario were exactly the chairman of Wikimedia CH. I am sorry I did the superficial mistake of thinking the site www.wikipedia.ch to be owned by wikimedia: the evidence was towards that direction, though.--10caart 14:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

And please explain what you mean by "official documents" and also I would appreciate if you can detail your statement that "Wikimedia Italia will be structured in all the 20 or more languages spoken in Italy" what do you mean with "structured"? Subchapters? Subcommitees? --Snowdog 11:49, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn't; that's more simple: I meant a 'conceptual' structure: but, since a will not take part in your national chapter, I shouldn't express my view about that, unless it influences (better or worse) the framework for collaboration.

??? Modifega

Qui siamo fra italiani, lombardi... e parlate in inglese? Ma siete tutti rincoglioniti? La smettiamo con questa menata? 10caart ce l'ho con te... la smettiamo (noialtri lmo) di darci la zappa non sui piedi, ma sulle balle? Per cortesia... e poi, fai il favore... se rispondi, non rispondere in inglese... per piasè

italiano:

Per favore Remulazz, siamo su Meta e potrebbe essere interessato qualcuno che non parla né italiano né lombardo

English:

Please Remulazz, we are on Meta and someone that doesn't speak italian nor lombard, may be interested

--Snowdog 14:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah beh... in questo caso, OK... però al Grott? Sono stato zitto per tutto il tempo, ho visto discussioni infuocate in inglese, letto, preso atto... adesso mi sembra ora di smetterla. Clamengh va ringraziato per il lavoro che ci ha messo, però basta con sta menata dell'inglese... ci stiamo facendo ridere dietro da tutti... Gesù Cristo... siamo diventati meglio dello Zelig

Remulazz, there are users of lmo.wiki who are not fluent in Italian. If someone cannot write in English, he/she can write in another language and ask politely for the post to be translated. Cruccone 15:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful! Then... can you translate my post? Many thanx, :: Please: ask politely something means asking something, please. Thank you. --clamengh 16:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Non c'è speranza... sono proprio un bovaro - :::PS Se per caso qui c'è qualcuno che non capisce l'italiano, non penso che si sia perso niente, visto le troiate che ho scritto (Cruccone pensaci te).

Translation of Remulazz's post above (by Cruccone):

Here we are among Italians, Lombards... and you speak English? Are you all stupid? Shall we stop this crap? 10caart I'm referring to you... shall we stop (we from lmo) masochistically hurting ourselves(free translation) Please... and then, please, if you answer, don't answer in English... come on

Well, Remulazz is kindly asked to stop personal attacks: stupid is an abuse, harsher than silly. I have some ideas, and now, unfortunately, due to Remulazz' habit, it looks like that it is not the time yet to show them. I do appreciate Snowdog's and Cruccone's latest contributions. That's a pity, all in all: it was almost done. See you soon.--clamengh 15:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

PS: Soon really means soon: i.e. next week. Bests,--clamengh 16:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear Clamengh, please stop complaining about personal attacks, come on...

Caar ul mè Clamengh, muchela de caregnà cunt i atàch persunàj, nemm, ostia...

An unforgivable omission: I would like to thank explicitly all those who contributed (each one his/her way) to the LMO.WP project. --clamengh 16:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

'Till next week then. --Snowdog 17:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

C'est interessant! Qu'est-ce que s'y est passé là? Je vais voir si je peux retirer mon opposition à Snowdog. Remulazz, je vous prie de bien vouloir considerer qu'on n'est pas du tout 'entre italiens', même à LMO. Je me permet de vous rappeler que ce type de rhétorique peut déranger, (presque comme la musique de Verdi): je vous invite donc à bien vouloir éviter de parler de politique ici. Je me permet d'insister sur l'activation de l'ambassade: ainsi, les amis italiens parlant aussi un dialecte lombard pourraient traduire leur mêmes ce qu'ils prefèrent écrire d'abord en italien. Merci bien.--Belinzona 09:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

This is interesting. What did it happen? I go and see if I can withdraw my opposition to Snowdog. Remulazz, I beg you consider that we are not all 'Italians', even at LMO. I dare recalling you that this type of rhaetoric could disturb, (as Verdi's music): I invite you to avoid political statements here. I dare I insist upon the activation of the embassy: so Italian friends who also speak a Lombard dialect could translate themselves their statements, if they prefer to write down first in Italian. Thank you.--Belinzona 09:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Ciò è interessante. Che cosa è successo? Vado a vedere se posso ritirare la mia opposizione a Snowdog. Remulazz, La prego di considerare che non siamo affatto 'tra Italiani', anche a LMO. Mi permetto di ricordarLe che questo tipo di retorica può disturbare, (come la musica di Verdi): La invito a evitare dichiarazioni politiche qui. Mi permetto di insistere su l'attivazione dell'ambasciata: cosí, gli amici italiani che anche parlano un dialetto lombardo potrebbero tradurre le proprie dichiarazioni loro stessi, se essi preferiscono scrivere d'abordo in italiano. Molte grazie. (ho l'impressione che devo degradarmi a it-2)--Belinzona 09:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't. But, please, let's go on this way. --Belinzona 10:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Please be so kind to ask an English translation. Thank you. Please do not insist along this way: in some sense, it looks like you are willing to put obstacles where efforts are made to solve a difficult matter. --10caart 14:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC) [ ::Dichiarazioni politiche? Dove vedi dichiarazioni politiche? L'unica dichiarazione politica che ho visto fra noi due è quella puttanata della stella gialla, in cui mi davi, neanche troppo velatamente, del nazista solo perché ho detto che il bergamasco e il milanese sono differenti (ti ricordi?). In effetti, è meglio se le dichiarazioni politiche le eviti tu. ::Cosa ti ha fatto la musica di Verdi? ::Per finire, posso chiederti di smetterla di darmi del lei? ::]